Refuting David Wood and The Masked Arab on Does The Quran say the sun sets in a muddy spring References

The main words in question in this verse are:

 مَغْرِبَ (Maghrib)

 وَجَدَ (Wajada)

 تَغْرُبُ (Taghrubu)

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun (maghrib), he found (wajada) it set (taghrubu) in a spring of murky water...(Quran 18:86)

according to:
Almu'jam Alwaseet المعجمالوسيط
Vocabulary of the Holy Qur'an page 447
Arabic-English Dictionary of Quranic Usage page 661
Al-Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary page 1077
Hans Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, 3rd Edition page 669

 مَغْرِبَ (Maghrib) means:
Place of Sunset, i,e west as the sun sets in the west
Time of Sunset
West
Sunset
According to:
Arabic-English Dictionary of Quranic Usage page 661
Hans Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, 3rd Edition Page 669
مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ used in Surah 18:86 should be understood to mean:

Time of Sunset
Place of Sunset, i.e. west as the sun sets in the west.

So when Allah says "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun (maghrib)" it can either mean:

He reached the time of Sunset.

Or Dhul-Qarnayn reached the western part of his empire where there was no longer any land.

وَجَدَ (Wajada) can mean to find/perceive/see/discover/experience.

According to Mini English-Arabic & Arabic-English Dictionary, Wagdi Rizk Ghali, Librairie du Liban Publishers, Page 340

according to:

Mini English-Arabic & Arabic-English Dictionary, Wagdi Rizk Ghali, Librairie du Liban Publishers, Page 340
Al-Mawrid Arabic-English Dictionary page 1223
Hans Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, 3rd Edition, page 1049
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran by John Penrice p.158
H. Anthony Salmoné. An Advanced Learner's Arabic-English Dictionary. Beirut. Librairie du Liban. 1889.
Arabic-English Dictionary by J.G.Hava p.884
Dictionary Of The Holy Quran, by Malik Ghulam Farid, M.A p.817
Arabic-English Dictionary of Quranic Usage page 1012
Edward William Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon p. 2924
Mufradat al-Quran of Imam Raghib Isfahani

 وَجَدَ (Wajada) means:
To find.
To discover.
To perceive.
To see.
To experience.
Finding by means of any one of the five senses.
Also this action of Wajada is done with a strong emotion.

So when Allah says "wajada it set (taghrubu) in a spring of murky water" it can mean:

he found/discovered/perceived/saw the sun set in a spring of murky water.

the word ‘wajada’ refers to perception through any one of the five senses see Edward William Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon p. 2924.

Meaning of  تَغْرُبُ (Taghrubu)

The word used to describe the setting of the sun ‘in the murky spring’ is تَغْرُبُ [stemming from the word غرب - meaning to leave, be absent, be hidden, to depart, to be distant].  تَغْرُبُ  just means setting or disappearing. Meaning Dhul-Qarnayn found/saw/perceived the sun setting/disappearing.

It is important to note that the word used doesn't mean to enter [دخل], neither to sink in/be swallowed up [خسف]. If the Quran wished to say the Sun entered the water it wouldn't have used تَغْرُبُ (taghrubu) as تَغْرُبُ (taghrubu) doesn't mean entering. It would of used  دخل meaning to enter.

Classical Muslims have always understood the verse like this:



In Tafsir Jalalayn co-authored by al-Suyuti (d. 911 A.H.) and al-Mahalli (d. 864 A.H.), we find the following words;
وغروبها في العين في رأي العين


“… its setting in a spring is [described as seen] from the perspective of the eye.” (ONLINE SOURCE)

Before them Ibn Kathir (d. 774 A.H.) wrote:
رَأَى الشَّمْسَ فِي مَنْظَرِهِ تَغْرُبُ فِي الْبَحْرِ الْمُحِيطِ، وَهَذَا شَأْنُ كُلِّ مَنِ انْتَهَى إِلَى سَاحِلِهِ، يَرَاهَا كَأَنَّهَا تَغْرُبُ فِيهِ، وَهِيَ لَا تُفَارِقُ الْفَلَكَ الرَّابِعَ الَّذِي هِيَ مُثَبَّتَةٌ فِيهِ لَا تُفَارِقُهُ


“… he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed.” (ONLINE SOURCE)

And even before him Nasiruddin al-Baydhawi (d. 691 A.H.) said:
ولعله بلغ ساحل المحيط فرآها كذلك إذ لم يكن في مطمح بصره غير الماء ولذلك قال { وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ } ولم يقل كانت تغرب


“Perhaps he reached shore of an ocean and saw it like that as there was nothing in his sight except water and for this reason it is said, “and he perceived it to set”, and not that it actually sets.” (Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Tawil 4/14)

How did Classical Tafsirs and Scholars understand this verse? Did they support the understanding above? Undoubtedly yes:


Tafseer al-Jalalayn co-authored by al-Suyuti (d. 911 A.H.) and al-Mahalli (d. 864 A.H.):

until, when he reached the setting of the sun, the place where it sets, he found it setting in a muddy spring (‘ayn hami’a: [a spring] containing ham’a, which is black clay): its setting in a spring is [described as seen] from the perspective of the eye, for otherwise it is far larger [in size] than this world; and he found by it, that is, [by] the spring, a folk, of disbelievers. We said, ‘O Dhū’l-Qarnayn — by [means of] inspiration — either chastise, the folk, by slaying [them], or treat them kindly’, by [merely] taking them captive.

Tafseer ibn Katheer (d. 774 A.H.):

Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun’s setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he travelled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.

(he found it setting in a spring of Hami’ah) meaning, he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something which everyone who goes to the coast can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed…

Abu Hayyan al-Andalusi (d. 745 A.H) said in his Tafsir al-Bahr al-Muhit:

"And the meaning of setting in a spring is that it is according what the eye sees, not that it it actually does so, just as we see it (the sun)on the smooth earth (land) as if it as if it goes into the earth. It is also permissible (possible) that this spring a part of the sea"
(Abu Hayyan al-Andalusi, Muhammad bin Yusuf,Tafsir al-bahr al-muhit, 1993, First print, Dar al-kutub al-''ilmiyya, vol.6, p. 151)

Imam Al-Baidawi (d. 691 A.H.):
He probably reached shore of the ocean and saw it like that because there was but water at the furthest of his sight that’s why He says “he found it set” and does not say “it sets”. (Al-Baidawi, Anwar-ut-Tanzil wa Asrar-ut-Taw’il, Volume 3, page 394. Published by Dar-ul-Ashraf, Cairo, Egypt)

Imam Al-Qurtubi (d. 651 A.H.):
Al-Qaffal said: It is not meant by reaching the rising or setting of the sun that he reached its body and touched it because it runs in the sky around the earth without touching it and it is too great to enter any spring on earth. It is so much larger than earth. But it is meant that he reached the end of populated land east and west, so he found it – according to his vision – setting in a spring of a murky water like we watch it in smooth land as if it enters inside the land. That is why He said, “he found it rising on a people for whom we had provided no covering protection against the sun.” (Holy Qur’ân 18:90) and did not mean that it touches or adheres to them; but they are the first to rise on. (Al-Qurtubi, Al-Game’ le Ahkam-el-Qur’an, Volume 16, page 47. Published by Dar-ul-Hadith, Cairo, Egypt.)

Imam Fakhr-ud-Deen Ar-Razi (d. 587 A.H.) in At-Tafsir-ul-Kabir:
When Zul-Qarnain reached the furthest west and no populated land was left, he found the sun as if it sets in a dark spring, but it is not in reality. The same when sea traveller sees the sun as if it sets in the sea if he cannot see the shore while in reality it sets behind the sea. (Ar-Razi, At-Tafsir-ul-Kabir, Volume 21, page 166)

According to Al-Mawardi (d.450 A.H) in his tasir (al-Nukat wa al-'uyun) the verse can be understood as:

That He (Dhul Qarnayn) wajadaha (found it, saw it) setting behind the spring ('ayn) AS IF it was setting in the very spring"
:فيه وجهان


الثاني انه وجدها تغرب وراء العين حتى كانها تغرب في نفس العين

(Al-Mawardi, 'Ali bin Muhammad bin Habib, Al-Nukat wa al-'Uyun, Unknown year, Dar al-kutub al-'ilmiyya, vol 3, p. 450)


According to Al-Qutaybi (Ibn Qutayba , the famous scholar of Arabic language, d. 276 A.H):

it is permissible for the verse to mean from the perspective of the eye (في راي العين)
و قال القتيبي: يجوز ان يكون معنى قوله(( في عين حمئة)) اي عندها عين حمئة او في راي العين

(Al-Baghawi, Al-Hussayn bin Mas'ud, Ma'alim al-tanzil, Dar Ibn Hazm, First print, 2002, p. 795)

What about the tafsirs that mention that the sun goes into a spring of water? First off even if those tafsirs say that that dosent mean the Quran says that. Its just the opinion of the author of the tafsir. Secondly the tafsir books are generally not reliable according to Muslim scholars. Only some were considered reliable like Ibn Kathir but the rest were filled with weak and fabricated traditions as Muslim scholars have pointed out:

In Faiz al-Qadeer, Volume 1 page 27 we read the following revelation of the Sunni commentaries of the Holy Quran:

قال ابن الكمال : كتب التفسير مشحونة بالأحاديث الموضوعة
Ibn al-Kamal said: ‘Tafseer books are filled with fabricated traditions’

Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti in his book Al-Itqan, Volume 2 page 471 has recorded the opinion of Imam Ahmed regarding the the Sunni books on Tafseer:

قال الإمام أحمد ثلاثة ليس لها أصل التفسير والملاحم والمغازي وذلك لأن الغالب عليها المراسيل
Imam Ahmad said: ‘Three things are unreliable, Tafseer, epics and battles (stories) because most of them are narrated through disconnect chains’.